Addressing posts about Becto

Discussion in 'General' started by guthixUll, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. Bloopaloop

    Bloopaloop Well-Known Member

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    Bloopaloop
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    The absolute biggest issue Becto has is transparency. Whether it be with an update, a change in the works, release date, appearance of staff inactivity etc. To be frank you've broken the communities trust time and time again. All the way back with the "big update" in season 4 that never happened and was later revealed that it was an excuse causing that season to last almost a year, but even so a lot of us stuck with the community. Even now we are trying to stick with this community and we are voicing our opinions because we care for it. Being ignored and silenced has caused things to escalate to such a degree, and although I don't like some of the people banned off the forums I think it was an extremely immature way of handling the situation from both ends but it never should of led to a ban and that's on you staff.

    The trust that was once in the community is broken, and we're tired of being taken advantage of. I'm honestly tired of reading comments from staff constantly being defensive. You can claim till your last breath that the staff are active in game but in vanish but that proves nothing, the player base obviously doesn't trust you and you have no actual proof that you're actually moderating in vanish. You know a quick way to stop hackers and build community trust as far as being active goes it's simple don't sit in vanish. Hardly anyone is stupid enough to use hacks with a staff member visibly online and the smart ones use /list anyways, so just by being there you're being a major deterrent.

    Now let's move on to staff not wanting to log on or show visibly because they don't want to be bombarded with messages and tpahere's etc. I get that as someone who's not staff I can tell you it is annoying I experience/experienced it to a higher level than some staff because of the fame I had from season 4 so I can sympathize. However this is common knowledge that this will happen to you when you receive staff and you knew it before applying, it's absolutely no secret that this is basically common sense that I know almost every current staff knew before taking on this position. If you want to complain and that's honestly a reason you don't want to log on or leave vanish then retire take a long break and reapply if or when ready, what you shouldn't do is basically retire while still holding a staff position.

    Now majority of our staff applications are terrible there's no getting around that and it's a common occurrence in any game. What I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around is why when we get heavily supported applicants they're denied. Let's take Pluji for example, he was denied once and increased his playtime and all around negatives pointed out in his previous application. Then he creates his second applications after 2 months with the only negative thing to be said was the color of his text which was fixed and the votes changed to +1 and then he gets denied and can't reapply for 6 months with the reasoning "We just don't think you're quite there yet." that's such a joke it's not even funny. As you would expect the community wasn't too happy about that which lead into more conflict and players being removed from the forums/community for what I'd consider a terrible reason. Like I said early though regarding those restrictions it's on both parties but the staff handled it terribly, I don't think a single person wouldn't get offended if their posts were continuously edited or removed all the while the posts containing what I would consider nothing offensive constantly were.

    So there's a few things I'd like to see and have answered. The first more visible activity and by that I mean not the forums not the discord, I want to see that red player name in-game, show your presence because if it wasn't obvious the community doesn't trust like they use to and that's both Bas's and the the staffs fault. The next thing I'd like to see is actual release dates, updates, etc no carrot on the stick replies about changes we'll either never see or are so far from actually being released that you just get peoples hope up, aka quit lying. Actually address the community and it's concerns you can't keep letting problems build up till they explode like we see today. More transparency or at least a non copy paste answer as to why staff aren't being accepted. With that being said I'd really like to know why Pluji was denied and hit with a 6 month reapply response. Also lastly quit being so thin skinned staff, you don't have to be defensive all the time and I don't care about your reasoning for it, most of you are adults so act like it especially as a staff member, your defensive or passive aggressive replies don't help in the slightest and only make matters worse. Oh one last thing I'd like it if we could see some transparency as to why members were removed from the forums, I've seen several people in the past banned for good reason but with all the posts in threads and then the bans it currently just looks like you don't like their opinion and silenced them for it.

    TLDR: I wrote a lot of text not going to lie but the base for everything I said can be said in the simple fact that the community/players trust has constantly been taken advantage of and is no longer what it use to be. Earn it back and quit falling into the same cycle that caused this mess or the only community you'll have is a bunch of staff that don't have to worry about a server as there won't be any players to punish.

    @Felicette I appreciate you having a civil conversation about the problems everyone's trying to address rather than be defensive and whip out a hand book of excuses. I also notice you constantly handling support tickets and discord issues and I appreciate the hard work. You've probably done more as far as contribution to staffing than a third of the current staff team combined and it's very visible to see the effort you put in.
     
  2. Piccoman

    Piccoman Well-Known Member

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    The reason why people are so mad about staff inactivity is that it's legit been like this for over a year now and now that the player base is dropping people are starting to call you out even tho its been like this for over a year of no staff member who actually moderates factions. If no players reported people on others on discord no player would ever get banned without someone else making a ticket. Just think about this for a second, a player who wasn't staff had to look at quick drops base and see that they were duping before staff did and then after they reported the player also had to find out the method of the dupe because the staff team did not want to take the time to watch the members in their faction closely. I am only speaking for factions, we have no in-game moderation we can only rely on forums and discord to try to get a staff member to help us which is an awful thing to do in a competitive game mode with no replays.
     
  3. Kewrai

    Kewrai Admin

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    Kewrai
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    Bloop I’m not sure where you’re getting that staff is constantly in /v, because that isn’t true. Let’s take myself for example. I was online for about 6 hours off and on yesterday, assisting on multiple servers. How much more “active” does the community expect a staff member to be? These expectations are unreasonable, especially when someone is already giving out as much time as they can.

    Regarding Pluji, I will not disclose that information. Community feedback is welcome but it’s only as just; feedback. All in all, the STAFF MANAGER has the final say.
     
  4. Kewrai

    Kewrai Admin

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    Kewrai
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    This is understandable. I will voice this opinion to the upper management. There should be more moderation if you feel there is none on Factions.
     
  5. Felicette

    Felicette Admin

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    Transparency is something that's very valued by the community and the staff team itself. As much as we want to be transparent to you, the community, we can't as we're not allowed to share the information we have, if we have any about the subject. In terms of "All the way back with the 'big update' in season 4", none of the current staff were in any position to do anything about this subject and while I understand that it's purely an example, it's something that should've been discussed more in depth when it happened. I understand your concerns about these topics, updates and transparency issues, but there's next to nothing Admins can do about some of these as the information isn't shared with us either. I'll propose the idea of being more transparent in the future to the management but I don't know if that's the direction they want to take future plans.
    Can you elaborate more on people being banned from the forums being immature and silencing them? The only people that I'm aware of that have been banned recently are; Border, Green_Fred, Xeo, and Boogie. Border and Green, after multiple replies that were off-topic, not constructive, and nearly offensive, continued to post them despite having them deleted and being warned. After their last few messages were deleted while they were trolling, Border created his 3rd goodbye post and continued to be toxic, along with Fred, in that thread. They both received 30 day bans. As for Xeo and Boogie, as two previous staff members they're aware that trolling isn't allowed. They were blatantly breaking rules to purposefully troll, even after a warning. They both received 7 day bans.
    If these individuals had been as respectful as most have been in this thread, there wouldn't have been a need for extensive actions. Hopefully everyone can be on the same page now that this has been shared, these bans weren't an immature way of dealing with the situation in my opinion.

    I understand the trust you once had in Becto's staff team has diminished and isn't nearly what it once was, that's why I've been taking a new approach to the topics regarding the staff team and trying to better understand both sides in order to find the best solution. Hopefully other staff will follow my lead and not be as defensive, as it's not what the community needs right now. The only time staff should be in vanish is when they're looking into something that requires an individual or a group of individuals to not know they're on. This could be a Mod or above on Kit, trying to spectate a hacker without them toggling, or an Admin looking into a bug on another server that requires secrecy. Otherwise, we don't and aren't really allowed to just "sit in vanish", I understand it may seem like we do but we don't, the times we do use it it's necessary. If we were to, hypothetically, not use vanish ever; we wouldn't catch the same amount of hackers and hypothetical other rule breakers as we would with it. As much as the community may not like an Admin being in vanish, sometimes it's necessary.

    I used this example purely as an example, the only time I've experienced this is when I first got staff and I was in over my head and unsure of the correct procedure, which I assume may happen to new staff. While I agree this is somethin' staff members "sign up' for, everyone's different and everyday is different. There are some days where we are all stressed out and overwhelmed, I believe I was highlighted on those days when thinking of the example. But I agree, if staff members cannot handle this after getting used to being on the staff team (the first week or two are rough, imo I'd let that slide), they should take it upon themselves to resign or try to find a way around it where they can still attribute and be active.

    Unfortunately, as @MildSawss said, I don't believe we can disclose this type of information about applicants. All final decisions are based upon the staff manager's discretion.

    As for the conflict that arose from it, the deleted messages, in my opinion, were sufficient warnings to stop, most of the toxicity was edited out of the posts before most saw and as for Fred, the reasoning to his ban extended beyond the conflict about Pluji's app, he continually argued and created conflict on a plethora of threads.

    I agree, I'd love to see more staff online and creating a bigger "footprint" and gaining the community's trust back. As for releasing dates for updates and changes, most of the time that's not possible as we don't set dates until projects are done, then we set a date for said event and announce it. Addressing the community in times of concern, like today, is something I'd like the staff team to work on and something we need more of, I'll see about the managers making sure we're aware of how and when to do this. As for more transparency in terms of applicants, that's something that I personally would enjoy as it's not completely fair for an applicant or their supporters if they're seemingly randomly denied as it seemed to happen with Pluji, I'll talk to Dean about allowing more information to be given upon a denial. As I've mentioned though, we can't release information atm about an applicants declined app. Defensiveness is a natural human trait and for some it comes easier... again, I hope these conversations lead other staff members to be able to address these concerns more professionally and respectfully. As much as I would like to be 100% transparent with bans, we can't be as there's policies against it for privacy reasons, I've been about as transparent as I can in this reply.

    Hopefully I've addressed everything you've mentioned, Bloop. If there's any grammatical errors or anything similar, please chalk it up to it being 6am for me and me being up all night and extremely tired.
     
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  6. monkaKnife

    monkaKnife Well-Known Member

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    Bloop said it best when he said that the trust problem was the reason why factions lost a majority of their players, at least for our group of friends.
    At the start of season 4, when a large group of the core factions player base started to play, I didn’t feel like there was much of a staff bias. The problems all arose when a certain abusive admin was promoted. This came with a huge bias cause they were the one that were responsible for accepting new staff members. All of a sudden, in season 5 we had a faction with 4 staff member in it playing for f top. Obviously there was bias, for example while Picco and I were raiding their base we got screenshared for hacks for no reason. All this was all going on while they had cheaters in their faction who were allowed to cheat because they were friends with half the staff team. Most of these players were eventually banned, but not because of staff, because I was constantly recording and they were blatant.

    Anyways, Becto lost a lot of its player base because of this. But the reason I’m bring it up is because the exact same thing happened in season 6. So many players returned that quit in season 5 to give Becto another try without having the abusive staff team in the past.

    Everyone soon found out that nothing had changed, the top faction was overthrown by a bunch of dupers with multiple staff members in their faction. I reported that the faction had been duping 2 weeks before they were caught. These players would admit to duping in discord calls with me in the call, an enemy. If you’re telling me that the staff members in the faction had no idea this was going on, they were either really out of touch with their faction or covering up for them. Another reason season 6 is exactly like season 5 is all the abusive bans and mutes that have been handed out to players that staff don’t like. I could go on and on about that topic but for simplicity sake, I’ll just say that Picco has been falsely banned 4 times in our 18ish months playing Becto.

    The community dying is entirely the fault of the staff team losing the trust of the players by repeating the same mistakes over and over again. I understand that the entire staff team are friends but there should be some consequences if a staff member abusively bans someone they don’t like, abuses their powers like farming the server bosses in /fly, and protecting duper’s from the rest of the staff team. These are real examples that have all happened and nothing has been done to even warn the staff members.
     
  7. guthixUll

    guthixUll Well-Known Member

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    Lord_Guthix
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    It seems a bit contradicting to make staff applications public, then to say you can't disclose why they were denied. Especially when the community had positive feedback towards the applicant.

    edit: I hope staff applications can be looked at from all angles. They're public and every person has at least 1 person that dislikes them. Sometimes when I'm reading replies on staff apps its repetitive it's sometimes hostile and all in all can feel like people are bullying the applicant, mind you this isn't always the case. But play time. I understand it's a big part of becoming staff but if the applicant works hard on their application and shows their passionate I think i'd be worth the try. that IS what the helper rank is for.
     
    #47 guthixUll, Apr 30, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
  8. Kewrai

    Kewrai Admin

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    Kewrai
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    Can I get some recent situations of these exact problems that you have mentioned? Names by chance? To my knowledge, no one the Becto team currently has done anything that you just listed. If they truly have done something like this, then it needs to be dealt with for sure, as that is NOT what we practice as Becto Staff members.
     
  9. strXker

    strXker Well-Known Member

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    strXker
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    Most of this thread consists of facs players so I'll cater my reply to facs.

    Honestly I don't think the decline in players has much to do with staff's alleged inactivity. S4 factions was thriving without any staff involvement - it was only after staff decided to change stuff up that facs died.

    In fact, I'd argue that staff involvement is what killed factions. Staff promoted for their activity on survival/skyblock, then making ignorant changes on factions upset a great many players. We had a working formula mid s4 factions - why change it? I never felt any lag, but a staff member (who wasn't a factions player mind you) decided there was, and introduced a mob cap. For some inexplicable reason, they also decided that generating walls also caused lag, so they replaced it with gen buckets. Making major economy and base-building changes mid-freakin-season is a massive no-no, so is it any surprise that player population dropped shortly after?

    I'd be perfectly happy playing factions on s4 settings with a few minor changes (flat bedrock, no offensive vision-based custom enchants, no mob cap, no mcmmo cap) that require literally no developer input.

    I personally never encountered hackers but I don't have enough experience to comment.

    tl;dr staff are fine as they are, but make sure they don't make dumb changes
     
  10. MVKay52

    MVKay52 Active Member

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    ImMk
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    How are staff paid? Shouldn’t they be paid by the hour? What about earning bonuses for a certain amount of weekly/monthly bans?
     
  11. guthixUll

    guthixUll Well-Known Member

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    Staff are not at all paid as being a staff member is completely voluntary once their application is accepted.
     
  12. MVKay52

    MVKay52 Active Member

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    So staff doesn’t get paid, and they are expected to improve the server out of the goodness of their hearts?

    No wonder staff are inactive, there’s no incentive for them to actively hunt for hackers.
     
  13. Bloopaloop

    Bloopaloop Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for taking the time to reply, I've read through the whole reply and it has shed light in areas that have been kept dark to the community and I appreciate the sharing of all available information that you have been able to.

    I've read through all the replies in this thread more clearly as when I last did it was around 5 am my time and I've noticed mainly from Felicette's reply "In terms of "All the way back with the 'big update' in season 4", none of the current staff were in any position to do anything about this subject and while I understand that it's purely an example, it's something that should've been discussed more in depth when it happened." that a huge issue mainly the major issue as far as staff and player distrust is the current staff aren't afforded the same trust that the previous staff team was given and it's no fault of their own as it's from that previous staff team that it was lost. However taking everything personal from conflicts before your time is childish. I can tell you right now why so many factions members are having an outcry in this thread because while staff claim to moderate as needed season 6 went down the gutter because of lack of moderation. When a staff member is called out for being inactive it's because chances are they aren't seen on any of the servers that require moderation aside from chat being moderated. So yes while you may be active on survival or skyblock watching chat it means absolutely nothing to any of the other gamemode's. Like I tell every applicant staff are expected to moderate all of Becto's servers but can some of you honestly tell me you have been?, especially after season 6 of factions? and I'm not naming any staff in particular with that.

    I'd also like to add that the higher the rank the less immature acts you are afforded by the community. Lashing out on members in a discussion thread is not only childish, immature but it all around devalues the rank you hold for yourself and others. You want to be treated with respect then act like someone who should be treated with respect. If you're an admin or higher you know how you're expected to act, some of you should learn from Felicette.
     
  14. Bloopaloop

    Bloopaloop Well-Known Member

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    Most apply for staff for a position of power under the guise of wanting to help the server, while this might not be true for all it is for some. That shiny special read name and extra powers is their incentive. If you want to add in incentive for them to actively hunt for hackers hang demotion over their head and you'll see it work better than any other method for most.
     
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  15. MVKay52

    MVKay52 Active Member

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    I didn’t even consider the idea that staff were not getting paid.

    It all makes sense now...

    I have been considering applying for staff a second time and I have been working to be more active on the forums, the discord, and in-game. I was planning on applying 2 months from my first app, but now I don’t think I am going to apply. I could tell myself that I will be active on the server regardless of reports, actively searching for ways to help players, but in reality if I were staff I wouldn’t find myself being active BECAUSE I AM NOT GETTING PAID! What kind of business doesn’t pay employees for doing work and expects them to be active... I understand that some upper level staff are invested in this server but that’s not enough.

    I know that the server has the ability to pay employees at least minimum wage in relation to playtime, and if they don’t then they need to have positive incentives for staff to pursue...
     
  16. Bloopaloop

    Bloopaloop Well-Known Member

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    Why? In almost any other community from any other game no one is paid anything. This isn't an actual job that you'd put on a resume in real life. It's foolish to think you get something for being chosen out of thousands of applicants. It's not like it wouldn't be reasonablely hard to replace anyone. To be honest I wouldn't give you staff either way, your reasoning for wanting it is a joke. This a gaming community/server not a business maybe apply to Mcdonalds if you want paid.
     
  17. MVKay52

    MVKay52 Active Member

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    It seems pretty hard for staff to replace staff that are quitting, because they keep rejecting people for petty reasons.

    I’m not saying I expect to get a pension for being staff on a minecraft server, but there needs to be positive incentives for staff to improve the quality of the server, not negative ones such as threatening to demote a staff member.
     
  18. Bloopaloop

    Bloopaloop Well-Known Member

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    It's not really a threat if you're not doing the position you applied for. If you can't follow through with what you signed up for you get let go.
     
  19. MVKay52

    MVKay52 Active Member

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    That makes sense, but the methods that are currently being implemented, whatever they are, are not working as there is a lot of staff inactivity. Therefore, what hurt could making changes to the way they treat staff create?
     
  20. shaqs_burritos

    shaqs_burritos Well-Known Member

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    Kitpvp should be more actively moderated, dropu gets on some, props to them, but only reporting a player on discord to get the situation to a staff is rediculous. Kitpvp has the most hackers and should there for have so.e staff who come online to check it for hackers a little more periodically. Me for instance, only report blatant players, because all the sketchy ones reported would make no staff believe me. Please have a little more monitoring, the chat is toxic also.